[Unedited] Serene Jones with Krista Tippett

<p>The glory that coexists in human life right alongside our weird propensity to choose what is not good for us; the difference between a place of sheer loss and a sacred space for mourning; grace as something muscular amidst the muck and mess of reality. These are some of the places of musing, sweeping perspective, and raw wisdom a conversation with Serene Jones takes us. And after hearing this, you’ll never think in the same way again about Woody Guthrie, or John Calvin, or what a Christian upbringing in Oklahoma might be.<br /><br />Serene Jones serves as the 16th president — and the first female president — of Union Theological Seminary in New York City. She is a minister ordained in the Disciples of Christ and the United Church of Christ. Her books include <a href="https://bookshop.org/books/trauma-and-grace-2nd-edition-theology-in-a-ruptured-world/9780664264772"><i>Trauma and Grace: Theology in a Ruptured World</i></a>, <a href="https://bookshop.org/books/feminist-theory-and-christian-theology/9780800626945"><i>Feminist Theory and Christian Theology: Cartographies of Grace</i></a>, and most recently, <a href="https://bookshop.org/books/call-it-grace-finding-meaning-in-a-fractured-world/9780735223653"><i>Call It Grace: Finding Meaning in a Fractured World</i></a>.</p><p>This interview is edited and produced with music and other features in the On Being episode "Serene Jones — Grace in a Fractured World" <a href="https://onbeing.org/programs/serene-jones-grace-in-a-fractured-world/#transcript">Find the transcript</a> for that show at onbeing.org.</p>