Steve Jobs vs. the Customer

<p>An untold story from Adam Grant's new book, Think Again, with special appearance by Ed Catmull and Rufus Griscom.</p><p>Audio Source: <a href="https://play.acast.com/s/the-next-big-idea/gid%3A%2F%2Fart19-episode-locator%2FV0%2F8eGHqU6ud87TFzlI-OG-ar2xD8QTim65hR_4cgCWV9c">https://play.acast.com/s/the-next-big-idea/gid%3A%2F%2Fart19-episode-locator%2FV0%2F8eGHqU6ud87TFzlI-OG-ar2xD8QTim65hR_4cgCWV9c</a></p><p><strong>Transcript<br></strong><br></p><p><strong>swyx: </strong>[00:00:00] I've been listening to Adam Grant, do the podcast book tour with this new book. Think again. And none of them really connected with me until this one. On the next big idea podcast. I think it resonated because he's friends with Rufus, the host. And there's a lot of good ideas in there:</p><ol> <li>Challenge networks</li> <li>Don't let your ideas become your identity</li> <li>Treat arguments like a scientist</li> <li>And some thoughts on opening other people's minds <ol> <li>by preaching, not prosecuting, </li> <li>having fewer points</li> <li>asking how the other person arrived at their conclusion</li> <li>doing motivational interviewing. </li> <li>complexifying the world avoiding binary bias. </li> </ol> </li> </ol><p>So a lot of good ideas in there. I recommend listening to the whole thing. </p><p><br>But the clip that I'm going to show you today is a, an untold story. That's not in the book about how Steve jobs was often wrong and that runs against the typical. Impression that we have a leadership that it needs to be very definitive in certain. So here it goes </p><p><br></p><p><strong>Rufus Griscom: </strong>[00:00:58] I think it's so nice to see examples of leaders who are more comfortable with their humility. The examples of the young Steve Jobs and the Barry Dillers of the world have always frustrated me. I feel like a lot of people have a desire to have this kind of obnoxious resolute leader mythology.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Adam Grant: </strong>[00:01:17] It's interesting Rufus. I I cut a chapter from the book tha